W.A.R Announcement:
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| Yes, this is the Teresa we know. |
Teresa Nielsen Hayden is now officially off the Tor staff page. She has been removed permanently. A source close to the staff reports that the sheer amount of negative information about her on the web was the reason. However, she continues to update her Wikipedia page listing herself as an "Executive Editor" at Tor books, and a reference footnote to the Tor website (that proves she is off the staff completely).
Another lie from this person. She lies about herself and about others as if she'll never be caught.
Check it out. Here is the Tor page: http://www.tor.com/page/about-us
And here is a Google link to articles about her bullying behavior online: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=teresa+nielsen+hayden+bully
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- Tor Editor Libels Tor Author
- Wikipedia Talk page | Wikipedia main page
- Hapisofi Shreds the New Guy
- Viable Paradise Bullies
- From Boing Boing to Absolute Write
- Tor Editor Longs to Gatekeep the Field
- Sad Puppy Meltdown Continues
- The Lies Told About Author Robert Bausch by Teresa Nielsen Hayden
TERESA NIELSEN HAYDEN GOOGLE LINKS
Search Results
Web results
Mar 19, 2018 - Teresa Nielsen Hayden had written a lovely post on Mary Sue fanfiction ... ideas used by the bullies to justify their mistreatment of hotcoffeems.
Jun 30, 2008 - Anyway, they hired comment fascist Teresa Nielsen Hayden to run ... sorry...
Robert Charles Wilson, Teresa Nielsen Hayden - 2015 - Fiction
Robert Charles Wilson Teresa Nielsen Hayden ... him no more or less profoundly than the bullying he had occasionally suffered at the hands of my father. Geddy ...
<--Previous Up Next--> Teresa Nielsen Hayden and Patrick Nielsen Hayden.
Missing: bully | Must include: bully
Jun 21, 2015 - Bullies and abusers rely on the larger community's desire for ... I stand with Irene Gallo, with Patrick and Teresa Nielsen Hayden, and I also ...
Web results
In online fandom circles, she is generally considered to be a bully. ... "has seen wide support from Laura J. Mixon and Teresa Nielsen Hayden, among others.
As Teresa Nielsen Hayden once noted on her web site, moderation isn't rocket science. In fact, I'd recommend a nice rule of thumb — watch what ever Hayden ...
Dec 27, 2011 - I could be wrong. My experience says I'm not. Update, 5:16pm: Teresa Nielsen Hayden has additional thoughts on the topic in the comments.
Let the word be spread, the wicked old witch at last is dead!
ReplyDeleteSomeone with intelligence is arguing for realistic changes to Teresa Nielsen Hayden's Wikipedia page, a page that grossly exaggerates her status and accomplishments. She was a line editor, not an acquiring or developmental editor. She added commas and small polish edits to Poul Anderson's ms, that's all. Her references are from her own websites and her Viable Paradise workshop. She has succeeded in fooling Wikipedia with her own self-importance boosted by marriage to Patrick. Also, she is clearly no longer with Tor, having been terminated, but an associate of hers at Wikipedia is preventing updates to the Wikipedia page.
DeleteThe following argues for following WP standards and not giving Teresa Nielsen Hayden special status that others on WP don't have:
"One of the BLP principles is the ability for a claim or fact to verified. The idea that a fact should remain until a reliable source says that the fact is not true is counter how evidence works. I removed the link and the reference after seeing that the source did not reference the subject at all. I am not sure what anonymous enemies have to do with this, but happenings in the larger world are irrelevant to NPOV and BLP guidelines so far as I can see. As far as the references being put back in, I don't see how the sources linked are reliable, NPOV, and notable. The reference to a writers workshop website is potentially even a self-contributed bio, which would violate reliable sources guidelines and self-publishing. Additionally, being a guest speaker at a yearly week long conference is not notable, and does not support being a teacher. The website lists her as a speaker and an instructor. The operation seems to be a money making enterprise to train authors to write saleable material. In that regard I am not sure any of it points to the subject being a "teacher", which normally connotes an activity of some substance and lasting impact to the students. I am neutral on the changes, and would like to see if anyone else has an opinion. I discount wholly the claim that "of course it is true" that she is an editor for that house - WP is not a place for debating what is or is not of course true, but rather, a place for publishing what is verifiable and encyclopedic about a subject. Kennedy Trengove (talk) 02:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)"
After being attacked by the Nielsen supporter, "OrangeMike" who argues the "sources" and "facts" re Teresa should be accepted without question, the WP editor adds:
Delete"Mark, thank you also for you constructive feedback. However, regardless of what is known and what is well known and not in question, for BLP, only what is verified and verifiable can be published, whether positive, neutral, or negative. If the only reference to the subject teaching is from a workshop website, and not from reliably secondary sources, I have to question that it's really notable, and thus encyclopedic. I am sorry that you found my comments on the talk page to be lectures, that was not my intent, and I will try to be more constructive in them in the future. Although the tone might not have struck you right, I hope that you would agree that using, as a source for a BLP, a comment on a blog post by the subject, violates WP:RS, which explicitly states that user generated comments should not be used as a source. I welcome better sources that establish notability, reliability, and meet the guidelines for BLP.Kennedy Trengove (talk) 03:46, 22 January 2015 (UTC):
It strikes me as bizarre that they would even allow her as part of an editing team of a publishing house that published Orson Scott Card, yet then allows members on her board to talk about of both sides of her neck by whipping and shredding him in water cooler threads.
ReplyDeleteSeems like a conflict of interest, yet I'm no longer expert. Later I might post the thread in question.
Actually, it's even worse it seems like:
ReplyDeletehttp://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297035
Karma . . . yes, karma:
ReplyDeleteThe Babbling Narcoleptic, Teresa Nielsen Hayden, Apparently Fired From Tor Books . . . Time & Karma
https://thewriteagenda.wordpress.com/2015/01/12/the-babbling-narcoleptic-teresa-nielsen-hayden-apparently-fired-from-tor-books-time-karma/
Get this and many others from Vox Populi regarding the "Toad of Tor":
ReplyDelete"TNH has always given off the aura of being a marginal player who fronts as an industry insider who knows it all, and manages to accrete sycophants and fellow-travelers around them - hardly unique to book publishing, sci-fi/fantasy or genre books. You may know the kind, they can talk the talk, they know enough of the buzzwords and jargon and goings-on to come off as an expert to people who don't know any better or with whom they are ideologically aligned. They pontificate and hold forth in their little online enclaves and get very shirty when people dare to challenge them; "authors" who've barely written anything, people who greatly embellish their position at this or that publisher, wanna-bes who never were, phonies, dilettantes, etc. The ranks of SF/F lit and fandoms' "SJWs" are filled with these creatures."
It's good they are glad she is possibly fired. But their homophobic comments are doing the whole cause a disfavor.
DeleteAgree re the homophobic comments. I don't really like these guys that much, but their commentary regarding the Toad of Tor is spot on. Teresa Nielsen Hayden has been smearing and dirty punching for years while pretending to be someone else. The universe isn't responsible for her illnesses and fall from grace, or for her morbid obesity or horrible temper. She has no right to take her shit out on everyone else, and in a cowardly fashion.
ReplyDeleteAnd the truth be told, Patrick *has* supported her excesses every step of the way.
OK so who is OrangeMike, is why does he consider TOR books own website an unreliable source?
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget TORs own website only lists her husband.
This orangemike holds us to account below. See for yourself. He resides.
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden
ReplyDeleteAs my source, I present the two recent comments from Orange Mike and Kennedy Trengrove. They seem to have the rather erroneous idea that TORs own website doesn't list Teresa Hayden.
How they misdirect and assume we are referring to a website not affiliated with TOR seriously astounds me.
Teresa Nielsen Hayden is NOT listed as of recently. She was removed. There is an ongoing debate between Wikipedia editors over the validity of her information on Wikipedia and her two supporters are preventing the page from being updated. Paste in the url above and click on "Talk."
DeleteHe's down below trying to tell everyone we're linking to another website. I'm as astounded as you are.
DeleteWikipedia, in the case of TNH, has become WikiFraud. So much of her page is a lie.
ReplyDeleteWell I was wondering if its her friends that are doing the editing. That would almost explain ignoring basic facts, like Teresa not even showing up on the T.O.R. page.
DeleteNow her husband does, but they aren't the same person.
http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/wikipedia.html
ReplyDeleteI hope this helps clear up a lot of wikipedia issues in general. I have a huge problem with a website editing an article about Mrs. Hayden, when said anonymous editors don't necessarily have any knowledge about the topic they are editing about.
If it's true he who controls the past controls the future, that's a very scary future to live in indeed.
A simple fact check will reveal to any editors on WikiP, anon or otherwise, that her page is inaccurate.
ReplyDeleteTwitter supporters of TNH are claiming any negative fact as gossip, but the fact remains, she is not on the masthead any longer. She is not part of the staff.
ReplyDeleteI hate to spoil your little hatefest with actual facts, but you keep linking to a list of the staff at for.com, the website, which is not a list of people who work for or at Tor Books, the publisher.
ReplyDeleteHere it is again, same as above, and it goes to Tor. Pretty obvious: http://www.tor.com/page/about-us. It's the staff page where she once resided as a "tech consultant" only. It's not a matter of hate, just a matter of fact. If you want to talk hate, we suggest you hold a therapy session with Teresa. Hate begets hate, my friend, and she reaps what she sows. I would venture to say she is one of the most hated people in the online literary community, but no one can prove that or support it. Just a guess based on observation.
DeleteI know what orangemike is talking about. Tor.com does belong to Tor Books, but it is not the publishing house website. “Tor.com” is an on-line science fiction magazine edited by Tor Books. So that link lists the magazine staff, not the publishing house staff. This would be the official Tor Books website: http://us.macmillan.com/torforge
DeleteFair enough, Carlos. A trip to that website shows no staff. The only Tor location in which Teresa Nielsen-Hayden appeared was on the Tor.Com location along with her husband, and she is now zeroed out. But the orange person was talking about something else. We could not translate.
DeleteThank you for the clarity and info. And btw, if we receive real info to the contrary regarding the T of T, we will announce it, but so far, nothing. Our guess is that if the discovery were untrue we would have heard one way or another from various sources.
You would think for such peer-to-peer group modification platform, they would have no problem editing the page if further evidence suggests a different narrative. Maybe one of my diaspora buddies is right, Wikipedia really is more of a social network for encyclopedia edit wars.
DeleteAs far as I'm concerned, the T.O.R. page where she is not listed is good enough for me. This above kind of screams of requesting an impossible level of evidence.
As an aside: Even if it's TOR magazine, that's still TOR publishing. The comment above suggests slight word spinning.
DeleteMore Teresa loving, and lying: https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/former-tor-editor-still-longs-to-gatekeep-the-field/.
ReplyDeleteDoes she ever stop bashing and criticizing other people, ever?
And you forgot to link this above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden
DeleteHere are a few people with some nice things to say about our lovely TNH:
Deletehttp://tlknighton.com/?p=7049
In the article, I'm almost curious what Teresa's interest is in the Hugos anyway. Especially in light of recent controversies about them. Now I'm not suggesting she's one of either camp, but I am wondering what she has against "sad puppies".
ReplyDeleteThe fact she can so publicly state a political position in light of "disemvoweling" authors that have any specific political position smacks of a double standard to me.
So who really can publicly state their political opinions? It seems heavily slanted to me in her favor to me. If I can't openly state my opinion on blogs, she shouldn't either.
Also totally lost on the "sadpuppies" thing. Like, I don't care. Just let me write.
Look at her twitter feed. She wont' stop urinating her every thought for the public to consume. How could she be a bigger narcissist?
ReplyDeleteFORMER TOR EDITOR STILL LONGS TO GATEKEEP THE FIELD
ReplyDeletehttps://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/former-tor-editor-still-longs-to-gatekeep-the-field/
http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/03/tor-editor-libels-tor-author/
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/tnielsenhayden
The ongoing hot debate over Teresa Nielsen Hayden's validity on Wikipedia. KT is correctly questioning her credentials, status and sources. OrangeMike, a Hayden supporter, is trying to shut him down. To all readers: believe what you wish, but if her credentials and sources for her claims were actually stable and reliable, this debate would not be taking place at all:
ReplyDelete"One of the BLP principles is the ability for a claim or fact to verified. The idea that a fact should remain until a reliable source says that the fact is not true is counter how evidence works. I removed the link and the reference after seeing that the source did not reference the subject at all. I am not sure what anonymous enemies have to do with this, but happenings in the larger world are irrelevant to NPOV and BLP guidelines so far as I can see. As far as the references being put back in, I don't see how the sources linked are reliable, NPOV, and notable. The reference to a writers workshop website is potentially even a self-contributed bio, which would violate reliable sources guidelines and self-publishing. Additionally, being a guest speaker at a yearly week long conference is not notable, and does not support being a teacher. The website lists her as a speaker and an instructor. The operation seems to be a money making enterprise to train authors to write saleable material. In that regard I am not sure any of it points to the subject being a "teacher", which normally connotes an activity of some substance and lasting impact to the students. I am neutral on the changes, and would like to see if anyone else has an opinion. I discount wholly the claim that "of course it is true" that she is an editor for that house - WP is not a place for debating what is or is not of course true, but rather, a place for publishing what is verifiable and encyclopedic about a subject."
Kennedy Trengove (talk) 02:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
More comments from the Wikipedia Talk Page below.
DeleteThe talk page demonstrates quite clearly a tug of war between realists and those who are vested, for whatever reason, in helping to prevent the truth from being told and having her de-listed from Wikipedia due to unreliable and self-published sources. Others have been deleted from Wikipedia for less than this. Teresa was a line editor for Tor, repeat, line editor. She added commas and periods to Poul Anderson's work, and the others. She was not an acquiring or developmental editor. This is not sufficient notability for Wikipedia based on their clear guidelines
More on KT's take on the invalidity of Teresa Nielsen Hayden's credentials for being on Wikipedia:
Delete"So took a little time, have tried to come up with some reliable sources that support extraordinary claims required for BLP standards - namely, verifiability. It is my opinion that there is a self-publishing problem. My count shows that well over half of the supporting references for this subject are either self-published, or published at a group-blogged website. Most of the works that are claimed to be edited by the subject are not sourced, and many of the historical elements are only self-sourced. My read of WP:RS indicates this is okay, but frowned upon and should not be relied on heavily or for extra-ordinary claims. I am going to be hold and re-work some of the text to try to capture a more NPOV, and to add a few reliable sources where appropriate. I'd be happy if someone made some improvements, especially with works edited by or for the subject. There is a great way to establish authorship, but what is the standard for editing? It seems easiest when the subject was nominated for an editing award because then there are NPOV sources to reference that are reliable and establish notability.
Kennedy Trengove
"So took a little time, have tried to come up with some reliable sources that support extraordinary claims required for BLP standards - namely, verifiability. It is my opinion that there is a self-publishing problem. My count shows that well over half of the supporting references for this subject are either self-published, or published at a group-blogged website. Most of the works that are claimed to be edited by the subject are not sourced, and many of the historical elements are only self-sourced. My read of WP:RS indicates this is okay, but frowned upon and should not be relied on heavily or for extra-ordinary claims. I am going to be hold and re-work some of the text to try to capture a more NPOV, and to add a few reliable sources where appropriate. I'd be happy if someone made some improvements, especially with works edited by or for the subject. There is a great way to establish authorship, but what is the standard for editing? It seems easiest when the subject was nominated for an editing award because then there are NPOV sources to reference that are reliable and establish notability."
ReplyDeleteKennedy Trengove (talk) 04:53, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
"Looking even further, the newly posted sources claimed to be reliable appear to not met WP:RS. Locus Magazine Online, which is the source for the claim about a third-party (namely, bio information that the subject is some sort of editor for Tor) is part of the "commentary and essay" section of the site, which is not the same as the magazine, and is not signed. It is not possible to know from what is available if the postings carry the weight of editorial weight of the magazine proper, which would indicate a reliable source. Given this a BLP, the need to have a RS is critical. According to the Locus Online page linked, the website Perspectives contains "Essays and commentary, including Cory Doctorow's bimonthly columns from Locus Magazine, and (as of February 2009), a new Roundtable blog with posts from Locus reviewers and other invited guests". This indicates the content linked is not part of the editorial control of the magazine, but apart. WP:RS says "Some news organizations host online columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control.". The combination of the source being unsigned and in the "Perspectives" section of the website for the publication indicate that the source may not be acceptable. Combined with the enhanced scrutiny of BLP, I feel confident in removing the reference in favor of a better, NPOV RS."
Kennedy Trengove (talk) 05:19, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
"The subject was a long time consulting editor at Tor, but has not been listed on the editorial staff there since sometime between July 1, 2014 and September 24, 2014. Without regard to why the status change may have occurred, the article should reflect the fact that her staff position at Tor is in the past rather than ongoing. Nitpicking polish reverted to the present tense based in part on work she did on Hawk, which was released October 7, 2014. In Hawk she is credited with a "wonderful line edit," a job that must be completed months, sometimes a year or more, before a book is released. Nitpicking polish also noted that her page says she's there. To that point, her user profile at Tor.com appears to be quite stale. The last activity seems to have been over a year ago. If the reference is to her independent web site, it only says that she consults, which indicates that she does some freelance work. At one time she had a dedicated workspace at Tor. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that is true today."
98.248.37.30 (talk) 14:08, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
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Fanlore won't update the info on her Tor status, however, they do point out her horrendous and vengeful personality more than once. Her threat quote:
ReplyDelete"Those of you I can't identify are not off the hook. I suggest that you never seek to take credit under your real name for anything you've done or written under your LJ pseudonym, because it's unlikely that I will ever forget you or what you've done."
From "An Unpleasant Portrait" of Teresa Nielsen Hayden
ReplyDeletehttp://tlknighton.com/?p=7049:
"While I’ve compared the Hugos to high school, TNH is the most vile sort of high school vermin, the “mean girl”. Mean girls are the ones who lash out with so much vitriol that others outright fear her to such an extent, she becomes “popular” because everyone fears crossing her. They don’t necessarily like her, they’re just terrified of her not liking them because those she dislikes will whither before her fury.
Too bad for her that she’s come up against that crowd that doesn’t really give a damn what she thinks of them. Hell, her position at Tor might have kept a few of our heads down in case we wanted them to publish us, but she doesn’t even have that now."
Her supportive hubbie Patrick will be fired from Tor soon. Wait and see. They're cleaning out the men as neatly as they can.
ReplyDeleteIf you go to her Wikipedia talk page you'll see this comment by a Wikipedia editor who has verified her violence against others.
ReplyDeleteTeresa Nielsen Hayden
And I quote: "This section has not even begun to address or cover her considerable activity on an online forum called Absolute Write where she posted for many years as an anonymous entity known only as Hapisofi. Utilizing this guise, she was able to continue an underground, supported by the owners of Absolute Write, wherein she perpetrated act after act of what any reasonable person would see as overly harsh, untrue, and unfair criticism of various presses, editors and writers.