tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post6796191082423235357..comments2024-01-13T14:22:02.849-08:00Comments on Write Absolute Reviews of Bully Boards: Teresa Nielsen Hayden Fired From Tor BooksUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-11221612821372301722019-09-23T06:33:56.509-07:002019-09-23T06:33:56.509-07:00If you go to her Wikipedia talk page you'll se...If you go to her Wikipedia talk page you'll see this comment by a Wikipedia editor who has verified her violence against others.<br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden" rel="nofollow">Teresa Nielsen Hayden</a><br />And I quote: "This section has not even begun to address or cover her considerable activity on an online forum called Absolute Write where she posted for many years as an anonymous entity known only as Hapisofi. Utilizing this guise, she was able to continue an underground, supported by the owners of Absolute Write, wherein she perpetrated act after act of what any reasonable person would see as overly harsh, untrue, and unfair criticism of various presses, editors and writers.Truth Be Toldhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Haydennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-13852215918646680062019-01-04T07:26:13.605-08:002019-01-04T07:26:13.605-08:00Her supportive hubbie Patrick will be fired from T...Her supportive hubbie Patrick will be fired from Tor soon. Wait and see. They're cleaning out the men as neatly as they can.Tor Watchernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-45763685017982488272016-04-21T09:10:04.264-07:002016-04-21T09:10:04.264-07:00From "An Unpleasant Portrait" of Teresa ...From "An Unpleasant Portrait" of Teresa Nielsen Hayden<br /><a href="http://tlknighton.com/?p=7049" rel="nofollow">http://tlknighton.com/?p=7049</a>:<br /><br />"While I’ve compared the Hugos to high school, TNH is the most vile sort of high school vermin, the “mean girl”. Mean girls are the ones who lash out with so much vitriol that others outright fear her to such an extent, she becomes “popular” because everyone fears crossing her. They don’t necessarily like her, they’re just terrified of her not liking them because those she dislikes will whither before her fury.<br /><br />Too bad for her that she’s come up against that crowd that doesn’t really give a damn what she thinks of them. Hell, her position at Tor might have kept a few of our heads down in case we wanted them to publish us, but she doesn’t even have that now."Factual Opinionhttp://tlknighton.com/?p=7049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-55960304886370131332015-11-10T12:31:00.949-08:002015-11-10T12:31:00.949-08:00Fanlore won't update the info on her Tor statu...<a href="http://fanlore.org/wiki/Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden" rel="nofollow">Fanlore won't update the info</a> on her Tor status, however, they do point out her horrendous and vengeful personality more than once. Her threat quote:<br /><br />"Those of you I can't identify are not off the hook. I suggest that you never seek to take credit under your real name for anything you've done or written under your LJ pseudonym, because it's unlikely that I will ever forget you or what you've done."<br /><br />RaceFail 09http://fanlore.org/wiki/Teresa_Nielsen_Haydennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-68853729408469731772015-09-20T12:54:48.800-07:002015-09-20T12:54:48.800-07:00More on KT's take on the invalidity of Teresa ...<b>More on KT's take on the invalidity of Teresa Nielsen Hayden's credentials for being on Wikipedia:</b><br /><br />"So took a little time, have tried to come up with some reliable sources that support extraordinary claims required for BLP standards - namely, verifiability. It is my opinion that there is a self-publishing problem. My count shows that well over half of the supporting references for this subject are either self-published, or published at a group-blogged website. Most of the works that are claimed to be edited by the subject are not sourced, and many of the historical elements are only self-sourced. My read of WP:RS indicates this is okay, but frowned upon and should not be relied on heavily or for extra-ordinary claims. I am going to be hold and re-work some of the text to try to capture a more NPOV, and to add a few reliable sources where appropriate. I'd be happy if someone made some improvements, especially with works edited by or for the subject. There is a great way to establish authorship, but what is the standard for editing? It seems easiest when the subject was nominated for an editing award because then there are NPOV sources to reference that are reliable and establish notability.<br /><br />Kennedy Trengove War Staffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-71434639998964882952015-09-11T12:22:37.875-07:002015-09-11T12:22:37.875-07:00"So took a little time, have tried to come up..."So took a little time, have tried to come up with some reliable sources that support extraordinary claims required for BLP standards - namely, verifiability. It is my opinion that there is a self-publishing problem. My count shows that well over half of the supporting references for this subject are either self-published, or published at a group-blogged website. Most of the works that are claimed to be edited by the subject are not sourced, and many of the historical elements are only self-sourced. My read of WP:RS indicates this is okay, but frowned upon and should not be relied on heavily or for extra-ordinary claims. I am going to be hold and re-work some of the text to try to capture a more NPOV, and to add a few reliable sources where appropriate. I'd be happy if someone made some improvements, especially with works edited by or for the subject. There is a great way to establish authorship, but what is the standard for editing? It seems easiest when the subject was nominated for an editing award because then there are NPOV sources to reference that are reliable and establish notability."<br /><br />Kennedy Trengove (talk) 04:53, 21 January 2015 (UTC)<br /><br />"Looking even further, the newly posted sources claimed to be reliable appear to not met WP:RS. Locus Magazine Online, which is the source for the claim about a third-party (namely, bio information that the subject is some sort of editor for Tor) is part of the "commentary and essay" section of the site, which is not the same as the magazine, and is not signed. It is not possible to know from what is available if the postings carry the weight of editorial weight of the magazine proper, which would indicate a reliable source. Given this a BLP, the need to have a RS is critical. According to the Locus Online page linked, the website Perspectives contains "Essays and commentary, including Cory Doctorow's bimonthly columns from Locus Magazine, and (as of February 2009), a new Roundtable blog with posts from Locus reviewers and other invited guests". This indicates the content linked is not part of the editorial control of the magazine, but apart. WP:RS says "Some news organizations host online columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control.". The combination of the source being unsigned and in the "Perspectives" section of the website for the publication indicate that the source may not be acceptable. Combined with the enhanced scrutiny of BLP, I feel confident in removing the reference in favor of a better, NPOV RS."<br /><br />Kennedy Trengove (talk) 05:19, 21 January 2015 (UTC)<br /><br />"The subject was a long time consulting editor at Tor, but has not been listed on the editorial staff there since sometime between July 1, 2014 and September 24, 2014. Without regard to why the status change may have occurred, the article should reflect the fact that her staff position at Tor is in the past rather than ongoing. Nitpicking polish reverted to the present tense based in part on work she did on Hawk, which was released October 7, 2014. In Hawk she is credited with a "wonderful line edit," a job that must be completed months, sometimes a year or more, before a book is released. Nitpicking polish also noted that her page says she's there. To that point, her user profile at Tor.com appears to be quite stale. The last activity seems to have been over a year ago. If the reference is to her independent web site, it only says that she consults, which indicates that she does some freelance work. At one time she had a dedicated workspace at Tor. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that is true today."<br /><br />98.248.37.30 (talk) 14:08, 5 May 2015 (UTC)<br />________________________<br />War Staffhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Haydennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-71645273094493746412015-09-11T12:20:50.858-07:002015-09-11T12:20:50.858-07:00More comments from the Wikipedia Talk Page below. ...More comments from the Wikipedia Talk Page below. <br /><br />The talk page demonstrates quite clearly a tug of war between realists and those who are vested, for whatever reason, in helping to prevent the truth from being told and having her de-listed from Wikipedia due to unreliable and self-published sources. Others have been deleted from Wikipedia for less than this. Teresa was a line editor for Tor, repeat, line editor. She added commas and periods to Poul Anderson's work, and the others. She was not an acquiring or developmental editor. This is not sufficient notability for Wikipedia based on their clear guidelines War Staffhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Haydennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-45031674330721960222015-09-11T12:13:34.352-07:002015-09-11T12:13:34.352-07:00The ongoing hot debate over Teresa Nielsen Hayden&...The ongoing hot debate over <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden" rel="nofollow">Teresa Nielsen Hayden's validity on Wikipedia</a>. KT is correctly questioning her credentials, status and sources. OrangeMike, a Hayden supporter, is trying to shut him down. To all readers: believe what you wish, but if her credentials and sources for her claims were actually stable and reliable, this debate would not be taking place at all:<br /><br />"One of the BLP principles is the ability for a claim or fact to verified. The idea that a fact should remain until a reliable source says that the fact is not true is counter how evidence works. I removed the link and the reference after seeing that the source did not reference the subject at all. I am not sure what anonymous enemies have to do with this, but happenings in the larger world are irrelevant to NPOV and BLP guidelines so far as I can see. As far as the references being put back in, I don't see how the sources linked are reliable, NPOV, and notable. The reference to a writers workshop website is potentially even a self-contributed bio, which would violate reliable sources guidelines and self-publishing. Additionally, being a guest speaker at a yearly week long conference is not notable, and does not support being a teacher. The website lists her as a speaker and an instructor. The operation seems to be a money making enterprise to train authors to write saleable material. In that regard I am not sure any of it points to the subject being a "teacher", which normally connotes an activity of some substance and lasting impact to the students. I am neutral on the changes, and would like to see if anyone else has an opinion. I discount wholly the claim that "of course it is true" that she is an editor for that house - WP is not a place for debating what is or is not of course true, but rather, a place for publishing what is verifiable and encyclopedic about a subject." <br /><br />Kennedy Trengove (talk) 02:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)<br />War Staffhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Haydennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-1635970088953614492015-09-11T12:00:09.499-07:002015-09-11T12:00:09.499-07:00After being attacked by the Nielsen supporter, &qu...After being attacked by the Nielsen supporter, "OrangeMike" who argues the "sources" and "facts" re Teresa should be accepted without question, the WP editor adds:<br /><br />"Mark, thank you also for you constructive feedback. However, regardless of what is known and what is well known and not in question, for BLP, only what is verified and verifiable can be published, whether positive, neutral, or negative. If the only reference to the subject teaching is from a workshop website, and not from reliably secondary sources, I have to question that it's really notable, and thus encyclopedic. I am sorry that you found my comments on the talk page to be lectures, that was not my intent, and I will try to be more constructive in them in the future. Although the tone might not have struck you right, I hope that you would agree that using, as a source for a BLP, a comment on a blog post by the subject, violates WP:RS, which explicitly states that user generated comments should not be used as a source. I welcome better sources that establish notability, reliability, and meet the guidelines for BLP.Kennedy Trengove (talk) 03:46, 22 January 2015 (UTC): War Staffhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Haydennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-27542111973322132922015-09-11T11:51:13.768-07:002015-09-11T11:51:13.768-07:00Someone with intelligence is arguing for realistic...Someone with intelligence is arguing for realistic changes to Teresa Nielsen Hayden's Wikipedia page, a page that grossly exaggerates her status and accomplishments. She was a line editor, not an acquiring or developmental editor. She added commas and small polish edits to Poul Anderson's ms, that's all. Her references are from her own websites and her Viable Paradise workshop. She has succeeded in fooling Wikipedia with her own self-importance boosted by marriage to Patrick. Also, she is clearly no longer with Tor, having been terminated, but an associate of hers at Wikipedia is preventing updates to the Wikipedia page. <br /><br />The following argues for <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden" rel="nofollow">following WP standards and not giving Teresa Nielsen Hayden</a> special status that others on WP don't have:<br /><br />"One of the BLP principles is the ability for a claim or fact to verified. The idea that a fact should remain until a reliable source says that the fact is not true is counter how evidence works. I removed the link and the reference after seeing that the source did not reference the subject at all. I am not sure what anonymous enemies have to do with this, but happenings in the larger world are irrelevant to NPOV and BLP guidelines so far as I can see. As far as the references being put back in, I don't see how the sources linked are reliable, NPOV, and notable. The reference to a writers workshop website is potentially even a self-contributed bio, which would violate reliable sources guidelines and self-publishing. Additionally, being a guest speaker at a yearly week long conference is not notable, and does not support being a teacher. The website lists her as a speaker and an instructor. The operation seems to be a money making enterprise to train authors to write saleable material. In that regard I am not sure any of it points to the subject being a "teacher", which normally connotes an activity of some substance and lasting impact to the students. I am neutral on the changes, and would like to see if anyone else has an opinion. I discount wholly the claim that "of course it is true" that she is an editor for that house - WP is not a place for debating what is or is not of course true, but rather, a place for publishing what is verifiable and encyclopedic about a subject. Kennedy Trengove (talk) 02:40, 21 January 2015 (UTC)"<br /><br />War Staffhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Haydennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-8876272303278463802015-08-30T00:36:04.570-07:002015-08-30T00:36:04.570-07:00http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/03/tor-editor-libe...<a href="http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/03/tor-editor-libels-tor-author/" rel="nofollow">http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/03/tor-editor-libels-tor-author/</a><br /><br /><a href="https://twitter.com/tnielsenhayden" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/tnielsenhayden</a><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-46582889586118555672015-08-30T00:20:23.260-07:002015-08-30T00:20:23.260-07:00FORMER TOR EDITOR STILL LONGS TO GATEKEEP THE FIEL...FORMER TOR EDITOR STILL LONGS TO GATEKEEP THE FIELD<br /><br /><a href="https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/former-tor-editor-still-longs-to-gatekeep-the-field/" rel="nofollow">https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/former-tor-editor-still-longs-to-gatekeep-the-field/</a>Sad Pup Personnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-87709225860814170142015-06-30T09:11:21.262-07:002015-06-30T09:11:21.262-07:00Look at her twitter feed. She wont' stop urina...Look at her twitter feed. She wont' stop urinating her every thought for the public to consume. How could she be a bigger narcissist?Annoyednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-35156689882553542462015-04-27T14:48:33.462-07:002015-04-27T14:48:33.462-07:00As an aside: Even if it's TOR magazine, that&#...As an aside: Even if it's TOR magazine, that's still TOR publishing. The comment above suggests slight word spinning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-20932646864039244172015-04-27T14:46:56.674-07:002015-04-27T14:46:56.674-07:00You would think for such peer-to-peer group modifi...You would think for such peer-to-peer group modification platform, they would have no problem editing the page if further evidence suggests a different narrative. Maybe one of my diaspora buddies is right, Wikipedia really is more of a social network for encyclopedia edit wars.<br /><br />As far as I'm concerned, the T.O.R. page where she is not listed is good enough for me. This above kind of screams of requesting an impossible level of evidence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-33350524343991881042015-04-25T16:29:15.183-07:002015-04-25T16:29:15.183-07:00In the article, I'm almost curious what Teresa...In the article, I'm almost curious what Teresa's interest is in the Hugos anyway. Especially in light of recent controversies about them. Now I'm not suggesting she's one of either camp, but I am wondering what she has against "sad puppies".<br /><br />The fact she can so publicly state a political position in light of "disemvoweling" authors that have any specific political position smacks of a double standard to me.<br /><br />So who really can publicly state their political opinions? It seems heavily slanted to me in her favor to me. If I can't openly state my opinion on blogs, she shouldn't either.<br /><br />Also totally lost on the "sadpuppies" thing. Like, I don't care. Just let me write.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-42052633014678625012015-04-23T15:19:56.685-07:002015-04-23T15:19:56.685-07:00Here are a few people with some nice things to say...Here are a few people with some nice things to say about our lovely TNH:<br /><br /><a href="http://tlknighton.com/?p=7049" rel="nofollow">http://tlknighton.com/?p=7049</a>Once Humiliated by Teresanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-49368440143441943012015-04-07T15:32:23.762-07:002015-04-07T15:32:23.762-07:00Fair enough, Carlos. A trip to that website shows ...Fair enough, Carlos. A trip to that website shows no staff. The only Tor location in which Teresa Nielsen-Hayden appeared was on the Tor.Com location along with her husband, and she is now zeroed out. But the orange person was talking about something else. We could not translate.<br /><br />Thank you for the clarity and info. And btw, if we receive real info to the contrary regarding the T of T, we will announce it, but so far, nothing. Our guess is that if the discovery were untrue we would have heard one way or another from various sources.WAR Staffhttp://writeabsolutereviews.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-51561970740275897432015-04-06T20:42:35.856-07:002015-04-06T20:42:35.856-07:00I know what orangemike is talking about. Tor.com d...I know what orangemike is talking about. Tor.com does belong to Tor Books, but it is not the publishing house website. “Tor.com” is an on-line science fiction magazine edited by Tor Books. So that link lists the magazine staff, not the publishing house staff. This would be the official Tor Books website: http://us.macmillan.com/torforge Carlos Angelohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17017625057651658017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-75690122835718691962015-04-04T16:56:59.104-07:002015-04-04T16:56:59.104-07:00And you forgot to link this above: https://en.wiki...And you forgot to link this above: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teresa_Nielsen_Hayden</a>Terribly Afraid of Teresanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-20387018680518753082015-04-04T16:51:10.264-07:002015-04-04T16:51:10.264-07:00More Teresa loving, and lying: https://bradrtorger...More Teresa loving, and lying: <a href="https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/former-tor-editor-still-longs-to-gatekeep-the-field/" rel="nofollow">https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/03/30/former-tor-editor-still-longs-to-gatekeep-the-field/</a>.<br /><br />Does she ever stop bashing and criticizing other people, ever?Afraid of Teresanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-23882300255060771802015-04-02T15:55:57.626-07:002015-04-02T15:55:57.626-07:00He's down below trying to tell everyone we'...He's down below trying to tell everyone we're linking to another website. I'm as astounded as you are.WAR Adminhttp://writeabsolutereviews.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-24433901795885035522015-04-02T15:53:09.727-07:002015-04-02T15:53:09.727-07:00This orangemike holds us to account below. See for...This orangemike holds us to account below. See for yourself. He resides.WAR Adminhttp://writeabsolutereviews.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-62270805237505439542015-04-02T15:49:55.088-07:002015-04-02T15:49:55.088-07:00Here it is again, same as above, and it goes to To...Here it is again, same as above, and it goes to Tor. Pretty obvious: <a href="http://www.tor.com/page/about-us" rel="nofollow">http://www.tor.com/page/about-us</a>. It's the staff page where she once resided as a "tech consultant" only. It's not a matter of hate, just a matter of fact. If you want to talk hate, we suggest you hold a therapy session with Teresa. Hate begets hate, my friend, and she reaps what she sows. I would venture to say she is one of the most hated people in the online literary community, but no one can prove that or support it. Just a guess based on observation.WAR Adminhttp://writeabsolutereviews.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7770060569501256999.post-4344358507584711332015-04-01T20:17:35.375-07:002015-04-01T20:17:35.375-07:00I hate to spoil your little hatefest with actual f...I hate to spoil your little hatefest with actual facts, but you keep linking to a list of the staff at for.com, the website, which is not a list of people who work for or at Tor Books, the publisher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com